Fresh Take
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Fresh Take
Brewing Change: The Impact of Fair Trade and Sustainable Coffee with Tripp Pomeroy
Discover how your daily cup of coffee can transform lives and support the planet! In this podcast, we sit down with Tripp Pomeroy, co-owner and CEO of Sweetwater Organic Coffee. Tripp shares his journey from working with Latin American landscapers to championing fair trade practices in the coffee industry. Learn how Sweetwater's ethical approach benefits small-scale farmers and promotes sustainable agriculture.
Explore the secrets of fair trade and transparency as Tripp discusses Sweetwater's cooperative model with Co-op Coffees. Discover the real-world impact of fair trade certifications and how they foster trust and accountability across the supply chain.
Concerned about the hidden costs of cheap food and environmental impacts? Tripp dives into the benefits of organic coffee farming and the role of certifications in promoting soil health and sustainability. Hear about innovative solutions like carbon sequestration payments that support farmers in adopting sustainable practices.
Join us to uncover how Sweetwater Organic Coffee is leading the way in ethical commerce and what the future holds for fair trade and sustainable agriculture.
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Speaker 2:Hello everyone, Welcome to Fresh Take. Today, we're brewing up an enlightening discussion on fair trade coffee. In this episode, we'll explore the principles of fair trade, the journey of coffee from farm to cup and the impact of fair trade practices on farmers and communities around the world. Whether you're a coffee enthusiast, eager to learn more about where your favorite brew comes from, or someone interested in ethical consumerism, this episode is sure to provide a rich blend of knowledge and inspiration. So grab your favorite cup of joe and let's get started. So grab your favorite cup of joe and let's get started. Here with us today is Tripp Pomeroy, co-owner and CEO responsible for business development and trading partner relations from Sweetwater Organic Coffee. Thank you for joining us today, Tripp.
Speaker 3:Thank you, lana, and thank you Fogg for hosting us on this podcast.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, we are so thrilled to have you on the show today on this podcast. Absolutely, we are so thrilled to have you on the show today. We've heard so much good things about Sweetwater Organic Coffee and I'm really thrilled to learn more about your background and how you basically became involved in the coffee industry and what drew you to Fairtrade specifically.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's a potentially very long answer, but I'll try to streamline it a little bit. I grew up in the Washington DC metro area and actually worked as a landscaper when I was a young man and even when I was in grad school. There I managed landscape contracting companies and I worked with a lot of women and men who had come up to the United States from Latin America to make a better life, and I learned so much from them about where they came from, work ethic, working with the land and how good it feels to work with the land. So that's where I first go to, where this all began. But I also, when I was younger, I knew that I wanted to get involved in international development in one way, shape or form. But I also knew that I better know how to do something, know how to, in my instance, know how to manage, know how to communicate, and I was very fortunate that my parents provided a lot of travel opportunities and chances for me to get exposed to other cultures. So the combination of working with these great folks, knowing that my academic interest was in international development and making a contribution, actually came together. Slowly and over time.
Speaker 3:I was a volunteer after I graduated from college I was a volunteer with Habitat for Humanity International in Americus Georgia where our first coffee company, camposino Organic Coffee, is located in Americus Georgia. That's the hometown of Habitat, and that was in 1989. And I was a PR coordinator for the 1990 Jimmy Carter work project and to make a little extra money because I was a volunteer and to connect socially, I went to work at a restaurant at night and I met my future business partner, lee Harris, who is our roast master working at his restaurant and roast master of our company that his brother founded. Bill Harris, who's our partner and who is our CFO founded 25 years ago. And so 1989, 1990, I met Lee. Had no idea this company would be founded and tackled.
Speaker 3:Graduate school in international development headed down to Paraguay for a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to open a consulting office for a small marketing firm, ended up going solo. Came back up to the States, young father looking trying to run my own consulting business, and Lee emerged saying hey, my brother started this fair trade organic coffee company. I'm the roast master. We need somebody to run it and grow it. Are you interested?
Speaker 3:And I had no idea what fair trade was back then I said I'm very interested and we had weeks and weeks of conversations, philosophical conversations, about fair trade, organic coffee, and I learned quite a bit in the process and realized that it was a business model that resonated with everything I had been trying to learn the idea of building business, being industrious commerce, ethical commerce, treating people right and finding a way to work collaboratively with people around the world to contribute to the development of marginalized communities.
Speaker 3:So in 2004, moved the family up to Americus, georgia, and became the co-owner, a co-owner and the CEO and, in the first weeks, months, bill, who had founded the company and who simultaneously founded Cooperative Coffee, as we'll talk about, we hit it off. We hit it off in terms of the principles of fair trade. The philosophy of business by the golden rule is great. The philosophy of business by the golden rule is great, but needs to be backed up, built on a foundation of practices that are meaningful, ethical and, to be honest with you, effective business small-scale farmer-owned cooperatives, small-scale coffee farmers right and roasters like Campesino Organic Coffee Company and Sweetwater.
Speaker 3:So here we are, 20 years later, since I became a part of this great company, and we still look at each other sometimes and can't believe we get paid to do what we do, which is drink great coffee, work with great people from crop to cup, and continue to work on making the coffee trading model the most effective engine for development in the coffee lands.
Speaker 2:Wow, this is really cool. I mean, everything that you just mentioned is just so fascinating, and you covered a couple of different personal values. I think that seem to drive your business decisions at Sweetwater. One of the things that really stuck in my head when you were talking was this idea of working with the land and I I think that in this world of capitalists you know, food industry that we live in, we have a mindset that doesn't really highlight that, that value of what the land offers and the relationships that we can build with the people that have a lot of the wisdom of what the land can bring. So I think there's something really powerful about that, and I'd love to dive a little bit deeper into where your coffee farms are located and some of those relationships that you developed. How did that come about?
Speaker 3:So you know the we, we we've been discussing coffee farmers. Obviously they're central to what we do, who we are and what we're about. But organic coffee farmers here, organic coffee farmers throughout the coffee lands, throughout Central South America, over to Asia Pacific, indonesia, laos, sub-saharan Africa, ethiopia, in particular for us, rwanda that they are on the front lines of stewardship of the land, which puts them on the front lines of climate change as well and active climate change.
Speaker 3:So we consider, we consider so. Okay. So I talked about cooperative coffees, right? So Sweetwater Organic Coffee is a member of cooperative coffees and I don't know if you remember I said simultaneously founded with our Georgia Roastery Camp scene organic coffee 25 years ago is cooperative coffees. Sweetwater Organic Coffee is a member of Cooperative Coffees. Cooperative Coffees is the only purchasing cooperative of its kind in Austin, texas and the other members throughout the United States and Canada who have banded together to buy coffee from what we consider to be some of the world's best, most effective small-scale farmer-owned coffee cooperatives around the world. And we're still buying.
Speaker 3:We continue to buy from trading partners, which is what we call the farmer-owned co-ops that we work with. 25 years later, we've been buying from Chahulense, which is in northern Guatemala, from Apecaform, also in Guatemala, manos Campesinas, cac, pangolin, the central Amazon in Peru, for pretty much the duration of our existence. And then we have newer kind of newer partners, like CPC Bulevens in Laos, on the Bulevens Plateau that I just went with a Co-op Coffees delegation to in February. We also went to Sumatra, and so what Coffees has done is and I know we're going to talk about it a little bit more, but basically as a co-op of roasters who have aggregated our demand and are committed to the principles and practices of fair trade and supporting organic coffee.
Speaker 3:We have established these long-term trading relationships with, like I said, some of the world's best, most effective farmer-owned co-ops throughout the coffee lands, and these are co-ops that are definitely committed to supporting and develop, helping their members develop more sustainable, profitable, income-gener generating coffee farms.
Speaker 3:You know, in the average, you know, most of the farmers in the co-ops that we work with are, maybe you know, one to three acres. You know which is what we like to work with small landholders, which is where most of the world's coffee is grown. So we're working with these co-ops that are very committed to technical support, financial support of their members, but also committed to development of the communities in which their members live right Grassroots development. And so my belief is that what I think are the pillars of our business model right, you've got the principles of fair trade, and the principles of fair trade I think are best articulated by the Fair Trade Federation that we're a member of and we can talk about that in a minute. Then the cooperative business model a key pillar where we're working a co-op of roasters buying directly from co-ops of small scale coffee farmers right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And the third is basically well is certainly complete, diehard commitment to shade grown organic coffee. And so those are the primary pillars. And so these organizations that we're working with, these are organizations that, against all odds, have been around for long periods of time, have been able to honor their side of the trade, deal with us, simultaneously surviving and thriving with intense outside scrutiny. For transparency, right, you've got transparency in how the finances flow through the co-op. You've got organic certification compliance, and on top of that, they're actively developing work. They're engines of development in their communities, not just for their members, but for the surrounding and integrated people who live in their coffee communities.
Speaker 2:You're just touching on what I was going to ask about. What's the importance of these co-ops? Those are the things you're highlighting right now, which is the support, the development, what are to sell coffee internationally? Right, you have to have high quality coffee.
Speaker 3:Don't have the resources to become certified organic and small landholders as a rule have to basically take their one, two 3,000 pounds of coffee that they harvest down to the roadside to sell during season based on local prices, right, they can't sell internationally. In order to sell internationally you have to fill a 40,000 pound container about 250 bags. To fill a 40,000 pound container about 250 bags, right. So co-ops offer an economy of scale for small landholder coffee farmers. That's number one, just practical right. And with that then a co-op also offers, besides commercialization support, co-ops also offer management of the co-op member's coffee, technical support that would not be available to an individual, generally not available to a small-scale landholder who's isolated.
Speaker 3:It offers financial support. It offers access often to pre-financing funds to get through the off-season, access often to pre-financing funds to get through the off season and all kinds of development programs. There's micro lending. There are micro enterprise support projects. I've seen all kinds of projects that these co-ops spearhead reforestation, leadership, training and these kinds of things are what well-run co-ops typically do best, which is to cover the whole picture, the whole life of the small-scale coffee farmer, right, and work cooperatively and frankly. There's safety in numbers. There's more security in numbers, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it's important to know for the folks that are listening who are maybe not familiar with cooperatives, which we, you know, abbreviate as co-ops. You know this term is pretty much used to define businesses owned by member owners. So co-ops are typically democratically controlled by the member owners and, unlike a traditional business, you know, each member gets a voice in how the business is run and services provided by the co-op or goods, you know benefit and serve the member owners themselves as well. Is that correct?
Speaker 3:Correct. Yeah, yeah, and it's. You know, it's an element of empowerment. And co-ops also. There are several important principles of fair trade, but leadership opportunities for women important principles of fair trade but leadership opportunities for women. Co-ops facilitate and make that possible and over the years we've seen a dramatic improvement in the role of women in leadership positions throughout these co-ops. I mean, it's a given, that is part of certainly fair trade principles, but also the part of all the co-ops we work with. That's a big part of certainly fair trade principles, but also the part of all the co-ops we work with. That's a big part of their dynamic and their members having ownership in it. That means if the co-op does well after they've been paid for their coffee, if there is profit, they receive a patronage distribution.
Speaker 2:So there are all these benefits to being part of a well-run, fair trade organic coffee cooperative and more clear that women, for the longest time, have played one of the most significant roles in growing and harvesting and just doing a lot of wearing a lot of different hats, I guess you could say, in the farming world.
Speaker 2:So it's really vital, I think, that we continue to support them in every which way and it's great to see and hear some of that. You know that's happening with the cooperative coffees and I want to switch it up a bit and talk about fair trade and and what that means, because I know you know there's a lot of different foods that we often might see in the supermarkets, a lot of consumer packaged foods, especially chocolates and coffee that we see with this fair trade certification label, and what I didn't realize is that there are more foods that can be fair trade certified, such as dairy produce, floral and even seafood. But I'm curious to know what fair trade, what does that really mean and what? What are the principles that you follow with with coffee growing and inadequacies of fair trade.
Speaker 3:Right, but fair trade is not this, it's not this one thing. There are different approaches, some better than others. There are some that are more oriented towards a checklist. Let's you know, for the sake of this conversation here in the United States, a checklist for an organization that serves coffee, they've got to have Fairtrade certified.
Speaker 3:It's a checklist item and that is what it is.
Speaker 3:I will use our definition and our approach to Fairtrade to answer your questions.
Speaker 3:So, as I said earlier, the first and foremost Fairtrade for us at Sweetwater and for our cooperative, in its simplest terms, is doing business by the golden rule, but some people would dismiss that as pie in the sky. So to get a little more tangible, we found everything that we do on the Fair Trade Federation's principles of fair trade and have built trading practices and a cooperative approach with Co-op Coffees to breathe life into those principles, to fulfill our obligations to those principles. So, fair Trade Federation on Co-op Coffees. As you can see, on our approach, the basic tenets of fair trade are that the trading relationships create opportunities for the constituents in the developing world, develop transparent and accountable relationships, build capacity, promote fair trade, pay promptly and fairly, support safe and empowering working conditions, ensure the rights of children, cultivate environmental stewardship and the last one is respect cultural identity. And if you start with those, there are responsibilities that we have as a cooperative importer to honor those principles in our practice and it's a shared responsibility with our trading partners. I mean, I can give a couple of examples.
Speaker 2:Yes, that would be great.
Speaker 3:Right. So develop transparency, transparent and accountable relationships. So the trading partner co-ops that we work with are certified by FLOW Fair Trade Labeling Organization co-ops and administrative load as well, managing the complexity of their finances and hosting an audit every year to make sure that their finances are in order and compliant. I would say that the trading partners we work with, the coffee co-ops around the world, are some of the most savvy, transparent, complex organizations that I have ever seen.
Speaker 3:If you think about it, let's say, 700 coffee farmers spread out over I don't know 50 square miles, 100 square miles right and one to three acres, and you're dealing with generally people who need a lot of support in managing their farm business. So transparency begins with the farmer co-ops and the co-ops we work with really do an amazing job in maintaining transparency and accountability for the money flow through their organization and how the money is dispersed to their members as well as invested in their operations, everything from organic technical support to the use of the fair trade premium Right. But transparency also is our responsibility. So our co-op is flow certified. Further, you can go to fairtradeprooforg and you can see all of Sweetwater's contracts all the contract, the contract, the bill of lading, the organic certifications for every lot of coffee we buy.
Speaker 2:Wow, just talk about transparency. I mean, the fact that you have your documents publicly available is pretty unheard of, I think, and most business entities, so that's something that I've never heard of that we can access those types of documentation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's interesting, you know it's interesting there's it's so much easier to run a business when you don't have anything to hide. So and we have customers. We have great customers at Sweetwater small, medium, large and I can't think of one that has ever haggled with us. Because they understand our business model and they support us. We just have great customers and they understand that when you're a principled fair trader and I consider all of our customers principled fair traders as well you have to trust the people you're working with. And sure, every once in a while there may be some glitch, there may be something that wasn't transparent and you fix it. But I've never seen our trust violated and I've never seen any kind of. I've never seen an issue that would lead me not to trust our trading partners and our chain of custody through our co op, and it's all verifiable with documentation.
Speaker 2:The fact that the fair trade principles are clearly impacting the lives of the coffee farmers and their communities by offering the fair wages and supporting the children's rights and having a lot to do with pretty much uplifting the area, the community that folks are living in in their day-to-day environment. But on top of it, it seems that this is also impacting the consumers and the trading partners and everyone else really along the supply chain. So it just seems to be a more holistic method, I guess you could say, of practicing agriculture, and I think there's a lot to be said about having that type of transparency from start to finish and making it just, like you said, making trust one of the biggest values. I think that's a really important thing to highlight.
Speaker 3:For sure, and I think I set up a call this morning with Felipe Guardi on our purchasing manager up in Montreal for our co-op. He's brilliant. We have another buyer, matt Damron, who handles our Asia trading partner relationships for us. They're both staff members of the co-op and I was talking with him about the way that he prices, how his pricing approach as a buyer on behalf of Co-op Coffees and our 22 members when he goes to meet with our trading partners and coffee pricing is very complex and it's very simple, right, but what he told me I said, felipe, I know how it works and I love our business model, but if you were to sum up one of the big differences between the way we buy coffee as a cooperative and the way others tend to buy, especially the larger multinationals, what would you say it is?
Speaker 3:And he said well, the main difference is when we first sit down with them. We ask them what they need to and want to charge for their coffee and we work collaboratively from there rather than going down with. These are our pricing parameters, these are our quality parameters. You need to meet them, and I think it's a dialogue, and dialogues are based on trust and trust is built over time, which is why long-term transparent trading relationships are so important.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think just the establishment of these kinds of relationships and communication channels is really critical for any type of business model. But it's very clear to me that this comes with a lot of advantages in practicing fair trade coffee. But I'm wondering what are some of the common challenges that fair trade coffee cooperatives face and how does Sweetwater specifically address those?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I would say let me start with the coffee industry in general. Right, so I'm especially with technology in the hands of all farmers. Basically, small-scale coffee farmers have flip phones and smartphones too, right, and they know what pricing is on a day-to-day basis, right, so they're empowered, more empowered than they were 20 years ago. But Fairtrade Organic coffee cooperatives are competing even for their members coffee in the local markets. So if you have 700, let's I use the number 700 members, right, and coffee prices in the local market spike. Spike because of, well, everything's based base price for coffee is based on the New York Sea, but coffee prices spike in the local market. You might have international companies coming in with a lot of capital that want to buy coffee from a specific region, right, and so what co-ops face first and foremost is competing with the local market and making sure that they are able to remain competitive so that their farmers don't take their coffee to a higher price that will be fleeting and temporary and likely won't be repeated, rather than deliver their coffee to the co-op, which is going to be their year in, year out, with all of these benefits. But when you're living at the poverty level, who wouldn't sell their coffee for more cash if it looked that much more attractive, right? And that's where the savvy part of these organizations come into play, as well as the importance of a direct, open, transparent trading relationship with co-op coffees. So an example I was down in Calca, colombia, like 10 years ago and I recall that we were meeting with our trading partners at Fondo Paez there, which is one of the most interesting and excellent co-ops that we work with, and I remember that they were working with our buyer the co-ops buyer at the time on the contract for coffee and they had established a price. But conditions changed dramatically in the local market and the co-op Fondo Paez sales manager contacted our co-op's buyer to say, hey, we've had a spike in local prices. I really need to talk to you about increasing the price that Co-op Coffees is going to pay to us so that we can make sure that we can get the coffee from our members and get it in the containers and get it up to you. And because we've had a good relationship with them long-term, open, frank, transparent. The reply from Co-op Coffees was, of course, can you please send the documentation to show us what you need, why you need it? And we resolved it by modifying the price so that they could compete with the local market, so that their members weren't tempted to take their coffee. So that shows you kind of it. Definitely for me it shows the value of a co op, it shows the value of the trading relationships.
Speaker 3:But it's a real challenge for fair trade. Organic coffee co-ops and co-ops are kind of constantly under siege and in a high coffee market where the New York Sea, where prices are high and you've got more and more demand for specialty grade, increasing demand for organic co-ops are competing not only against the local market, they're competing against buyers with a lot of capital. And, as Felipe said and I agree with him, the biggest battle that we all face and farmer-owned co-ops face is a battle for upholding our ideals and our principles of fair, equitable trade. So that was a little bit long-winded but that's kind of a real challenge. Some of the other challenges faced there's more specific challenges faced by our trading partners and I know we're going to talk about climate change, but climate change is certainly number one.
Speaker 2:Oh yes.
Speaker 3:Yes, so we'll get to that. Let me just throw a couple of others Some of the others that they well relating to the price issue that we just talked about. There are people who are looking for cheaper fair trade now. Well, cheaper fair trade, organic coffee, and the whole point of fair trade organic coffee is to optimize the price paid to these farmers so that their livelihoods are stable and sustainable and we get great coffee. So there is a need for roasters like us and cooperative importers like us to fight the battle that needs to be fought, which means basically maintaining best margins we can in a highly competitive market, but also not being tempted to buy cheaper coffee from our trading partners for the sake of buying cheaper.
Speaker 3:I don't know if that makes sense, but that's an issue.
Speaker 2:That makes a lot of sense, and I think this is something that I think we see a lot in the local food system in general, in terms of if you're going to buy fresh local product, whether it's direct from your farmer or from a farmer's market, a CSA there's always that challenge, I think, of justifying the price right, because I think that oftentimes we'll see that the price point is higher when you are trying to buy local or trying to support something like fair trade in terms of food certifications, and I think it's a conscious decision that a lot of consumers make, knowing that their dollar is going to benefit someone on the other side of that.
Speaker 2:So I think that's a really, you know, a conversation that I feel like we're having in this industry over and over again, but it's really, it's something that we you're able to commit that dollar amount, then it's something that we can actively do on our end as consumers to make that difference.
Speaker 3:Oh, for sure, and that is well put, and I think that's a big point. I think, as I try to improve how I eat, there are trade-offs, right. You get what you pay for. Try to improve how I eat, there are trade-offs, right, you get what you pay for. And so cheap food, just like cheap coffee, just like cheap garments if you pay little, that means the person who is farming it or making it is also being paid very little.
Speaker 3:It's on the back of somebody On top of that, like organic food and for the organic food farmers in Florida and the coffee farmers we work with, they're investing in the environment on our behalf and they're providing us with food and coffee that is healthy.
Speaker 3:And it's hard to put a value on that sometimes the subjective value of better health. But I think if, when I stopped to think about it and I think about the costs of medical care you know, health insurance and all that we aren't paying, I don't feel like, and I feel like I've got to do a better job too, of paying attention to am I really paying more? Or is it really that the lower cost stuff is lower cost because it comes with unseen disadvantages and impact Everything from processed food that's bad for you, to coffee farmers and crop farmers who are dumping chemicals into the soil to keep their crops vibrant, if at least short term, but depleting the soil, which means they can't multi-crop, which means they can't plant food for food security. So I think that there are trade-offs, but if you really think about the value of organics, it's there. I just think we've been led to believe that things should be cheap when maybe they shouldn't.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yes, and I think this takes us into the challenge, the battle of climate change too. Right, and I think you touched a little bit on soil and the formulation of what goes into our soil and input the output. There's a lot of different factors that are involved in growing and I think that it's becoming more and more surreal that this is something that we're facing and is obviously impacting us, but more so impacting our marginalized growers. People that are not don't have access to all the resources and technology that could maybe give them an advantage on better soil practices or, you know, the products that they need to use to to make everything as environmentally friendly as possible. But it's just like there's a lot of different things, such as organic farming practices.
Speaker 2:I think that, like you said, I think we maybe get misguided a little bit to think that this is just another label, but in reality, fair trade certification, organic certification, regenerative certification these are all things that are, you know, trusted, regulated heavily and have very set in place standards so that we can trust that someone with that label is actually doing what they say they're doing. So I think it's a, you know, something that we've obviously developed in the world of agriculture, in this industry to help our consumers be able to better trust us right with what we're feeding them, and I think that you know this all plays a really big role. But going back to climate change for a second, I wanted to hear your thoughts on how is this playing a role in what's happening in the organic coffee world?
Speaker 3:How is this playing a role in what's happening in the organic coffee world? So coffee in particular. I would say in a general sense, climate change has introduced unpredictability and volatility into the farming of coffee In a general sense. You've got hotter, longer summers. In a general sense, you've got hotter, longer summers. You've got rainfall that is either not timed, as it usually was, or just torrential, when it used to be a normal, steady rainfall, right. So it's volatility.
Speaker 3:And coffee grows better when it's grown naturally slash organically under natural shade canopy, right.
Speaker 3:So, fortunately, proper coffee farming that employs shade management which is what is you know great about organics, because that's an integral part of it is one of the best tools, or an important tool, that coffee farmers not only use to grow their coffee properly and effectively, but also to maintain forestation, with deforestation occurring around them.
Speaker 3:So climate change is volatility, right. And these coffee farmer co-ops leverage their co-ops and the trainings with their members to the Calca Organic Farmers Association in Calca, columbia, that teaches farmers how to compost, how to harvest wood in a biodynamically effective manner. These are all the benefits of our movement Florida Organic Growers being a leader in Florida and then our trading partners being leaders in their regions, and Felipe, who I was talking with this morning when we were talking about climate change. He said the beauty of organic coffee farming one the organic seal for our trading partners is probably the highest value seal above and beyond fair trade. So the organic seal itself seems to be the best investment for our trading partners in terms of market access and opportunities, but also organic practices. There's a lot of great knowledge throughout the coffee lands. I mean, that is where we can go to learn right.
Speaker 2:And what?
Speaker 3:Felipe said, is that organic coffee farming, and organic practices here and there, offers a holistic approach compared to conventional right. So conventional is going to target only the know, the, only the necessary nutrients, only the necessary pest controls, using chemical means, right To get the most out of that plant. Essentially, yes, organic practices cover everything from shade management to soil health to take into consideration the the ecosystem. You have, you the ecosystem. You have monarch butterflies that go down through Mexico that need their destination to go to. You have local birds and fauna that need the shade canopy. So organic needs that shade canopy and that shade canopy actually is a really important element in terms of climate change. The other thing, too, is that the coffee that is farmed using organic methods, even with the assault of climate change, the coffee is better developed, it's better quality. It actually has a higher ratio of what's called parchment to green, which is basically compared to conventional coffee, you get more high-grade coffee with organic farming.
Speaker 2:I was about to say, does that change the flavor and the richness of the coffee bean as well?
Speaker 3:Yep, absolutely. Wow. You get a heavier bean, a better developed bean and you get a better cup out of it. And I would say, you know I was talking with Bill Harris, who you know, who started our company and also started the co-op. I was talking with him yesterday and he put it a good way you know, climate change and we need to pay attention to this is moving coffee farming to higher altitudes because of the heat at lower altitudes. So there's a natural occurring fungus in coffee and there have been periods of time where there's really been devastation with the fungus and because temperatures are rising, that fungus is occurring at higher and higher altitudes and it's something else that coffee farmers have to manage to manage against, to keep the fungus in, you know, under control.
Speaker 2:That makes sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so on top of that, the thing about organic cultivation and climate change is organic cultivation invests in healthy soil. Healthy soil provides the opportunity I think I said this before where you can grow other crops, like cacao, for sale, which is great, but it also provides fertile ground for growing your own foodstuffs and food security. And so in climate change, you have disruptions to food supply, standard food supply, so self-sufficiency goes a long way.
Speaker 2:Definitely, and I mean I think this also ties into agroforestry a bit, which is, you know, working with the land to grow things that grow better together, and you know you mentioned cacao and some other crops that might be that might grow really well under those types of fertile soil conditions. So there's just so many different things that get impacted by the way you're growing and it's just it's so complex yet so clear that there's all these little factors play a big difference and the end outcome the food that's being brought to our table. So I'd like to ask you, you know, what types of looking forward, what types of innovations and advancements would you like to see in the industry to better address these types of challenges?
Speaker 3:I was hoping that was the question you were going to ask me, so I think so. Several years ago I went to a roaster coffee farmer co-op workshop down in Guatemala, and the workshop was to learn about a tool called the Cool Farms Tool, which some larger corporate organizations had generously helped to make available to our co-op to evaluate as a tool to measure the carbon impact of coffee farming, and we were sitting with the farmer organizations to understand how the tool worked together, understand if these farmer organizations were capable of providing the data, if it would be a useful tool to them. And I won't go into all that, other than the general conclusion reached is that well-run organic coffee farms and, in particular, well-run fair trade organic coffee cooperatives, generally speaking, are either carbon neutral or actually are carbon sequesterers because of the shade management techniques and the way they manage their crops. And so we've discussed this as a co-op and those of us who are in our co-op how can we deliver more value to our trading partners? Well, you know the idea of monetizing the value of their maintaining their shade canopy, certainly, and the fact that they're sequestering carbon seems like an interesting opportunity to increase income to them, apart from technical support and contributing to their reforestation efforts, which we all owe up here.
Speaker 3:Right is, I think there should be a good opportunity to find a way to compensate these organizations for the work they're doing on the front lines to capture carbon like a line item on the contract. Hard, lots of things to be worked out, but that would be one addition that would be helpful, I would say too. Something I forgot to mention is that three cents of every pound that Sweetwater Organic Coffee buys, every green pound of coffee from our co-op, goes into an impact fund, and the impact fund, run by our co-op two times a year, solicits proposals from our trading partner co-ops, the farmer co-ops, to help fund initiatives on the ground in their organization. That's incredible.
Speaker 3:Well, and I think it's a great opportunity and it's part of the solution. And so for those who want to be in, who want to participate in the fair trade organic coffee community and our cooperative community specifically supporting the fighters on the front line of organics, and here in Florida too, I think people need to support Florida Organic Growers and its farmer members. They're doing very hard work. How do we get them the technical support, the funding they need to do the work for us? And so on the coffee side, you know Carbon payments would be interesting, Carbon sequestration payments would be interesting. Additional funding for climate. So you've got an organic premium, You've got a fair trade premium, I don't know, maybe a two to three cent, you know, adding a tax to different things.
Speaker 2:Then money can play a really powerful role and, in terms of it being an incentive, that, you know, seems to be something that I think should be the next wave of how we kind of navigate through our agricultural world, moving forward, because there's no reason not to want to help save this planet, right, because we have a lot of limited resources that we're playing around with and this type of incentivized program could be really life-changing for future generations. So that's something that you should definitely patent, that idea, right? That's something that you should definitely patent that idea.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, I feel like there's plenty of money out there. It just is hoarded and not distributed and I think, with a modest outlay of everybody pitching in, I think that there's a decent return on investment in terms of maintaining our small-scale farmer culture, both here and abroad, which I do think people value. They're just disconnected from it.
Speaker 2:Yes, how do you foresee Sweetwater Organic Coffee playing a role in the future for other businesses that want to become eco-friendly? And also, you know, how can people find you, how can people learn more about you and even try some of the Sweetwater Organic Coffee themselves?
Speaker 3:Well, the first question we've always felt like we would love for somebody in coffee other sectors to ask us about our cooperative model. We'd love to share how we do. What we're doing. I mean it's highly imperfect. We've got our own issues. I'm on the governance committee, I'm on the board and we're just like every other organization. We learn as we go and we got to fix things and learn how to do things better. And even our model, our model, needs continual improvement. Right, I mean there's areas where we've got to improve, but all the same, we've got a 25-year track record of being a viable cooperative of coffee roasters with pretty much the same trading partner co-ops that we've been working with over all these years. So one is we would love for people to come learn about our model and apply it to other areas of organic farming.
Speaker 3:I think that Sweetwater really needs to do a few things Moving forward. We need to continue to be strong members of our co-op. We need to be actively involved. We need to really continue our visits to Origin to meet with our trading partners and get updates, exchange ideas, exchange experiences so we contribute, to collaborate. I think Sweetwater needs to continue to grow its sales organically and naturally so that we have I mean, we have.
Speaker 3:You know, I've said this we have customers who are across the board are either online retail and you can buy us online and online there is a way to see, there's a place to click through to see where you can buy Sweetwater. But growing our online retail and wholesale sales meets a lot of ends Ones that helps us obviously grow as a company and cut a modest profit. We want to take care of our employees and cut a modest profit. We want to take care of our employees. So we're a certified B Corp. We've got benefits, we've got good wages, but we'd like to be able to do more for our staff. But go back to the core of all this we want to buy more coffee from our trading partners because we know that we're buying it in a way that's sustainable and that benefits them and benefits us. And we know that three cents of every pound is going to the impact fund, so as we grow, we can grow our impact at origin.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And the good news is that the conversation doesn't end here. We are really excited about an upcoming episode with a representative of a Fairtrade Organic Coffee Cooperative from your network of farmer co-ops, so we're really, really looking forward to that.
Speaker 3:That's great. We so appreciate your support and giving us this time to share what we do. To share what we do, and I do think that a rep from one of the farmer co-ops and we've got a few folks that we're going to be reaching out to will really provide more insight than I've given into what makes those organic fair trade organizations tick and survive and thrive.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, that's the key. I think thrive is the key word there. So we, we, we really want to support that as well, and we are so happy to have had you, you know, share your expertise and insight on our show today trip. So a big, big thank you for for providing us with that invaluable insight on the future of fair trade coffee.
Speaker 3:Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:Of course, and that you know pretty much wraps up our deep dive into the world of fair trade coffee. We hope this episode has given you a fresh perspective on the significance of fair trade principles and the complex challenges faced by coffee growers, especially in the context of climate change. And remember every cup of coffee you choose to drink can make a difference. By supporting fair trade, you're not just enjoying a delicious brew, you're also contributing to fair wages, sustainable farming practices and the well-being of communities around the world. For more information, resources and ways to get involved, check out the show notes. If you found this episode insightful, please subscribe, rate and review Fresh Take to help us continue bringing you important conversations about ethical and sustainable practices. Until next time, enjoy your coffee responsibly. Thank you for tuning in.